Full Podcast
Hosted by IGLYO Comms & Network Officer Toryn (She/her), our Portraits of Queer Youth podcast series gives a platform to young queer activists from across the globe to share their powerful stories, describe the local LGBTQI landscape in their region, and share their messages of hope to queer youth peers worldwide.
This fourth episode centres on Tavonga (She/her), a dedicated lawyer and human rights advocate with a specialised focus on LGBTQI communities in Zimbabwe. Having worked with different local LGBTQI communities and organisations, Tavonga provides free legal advice to local community members who cannot afford it. To her, being queer is the greatest form of self-love.
You can listen to the full podcast below on Spotify or YouTube, or read the full transcript underneath.
With the support of
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This podcast was produced with the support of with the support of the Citizenship, Equality, Rights and Values 2021-2027 Programme of the European Union. The contents of the podcast are the sole responsibility of IGLYO and can in no way be taken to reflect those of the European Commission.
Full transcript
Toryn
Hello and welcome to the IGLYO Portraits of Queer Youth podcast series. Each podcast, we’ll speak to a different queer person from around the globe about their experiences and their local communities, bridging the gap between European queer activists and their colleagues around the world.
For this episode, we are joined by Tavonga. Tavonga is a dedicated lawyer and human rights advocate with a specialised focus on LGBTQI communities in Zimbabwe. Tavonga welcome.
Tavonga
Thank you. Thank you.
Toryn
So we're going to jump in. But before we do, do you want to introduce yourself and let listeners know who you are and a bit about the background of your work.
Tavonga
All right. So I'm Tavonga. I work in Zimbabwe. I'm a registered lawyer. I'm also very passionate about the rights of marginalised communities, including the LGBTQ community. I've worked with different LGBTQ communities and organisations here in Zimbabwe. And most of the time I do a lot of work around advocacy, when it comes to policies, when it comes to laws as well. And I'm also passionate about giving free legal aid to the community members who cannot afford it.
Toryn
Again thank you so much for joining us. We're really excited to hear about the situation in Zimbabwe and some of the work you do. And jumping into the first question, could you tell us what it means for you to exist as a queer person in the world? How has it changed your life and perspective moving through the world as a queer person? What does it mean to you?
Tavonga
It means that I get to live and exist in my most authentic form. Because I think it takes a lot of courage to live in a hostile environment and still be able to be true to yourself, and true to myself when it comes to me. And I think I realised that being queer is actually a greater form of self-love. And the moment I accepted who I am, it was the greatest form of self-love. Which comes with issues such as rejection from friends and family. So it’s something I have really embraced.
And I think it also means that I get to surround myself with the diverse community of individuals who are like myself, who have shown me that I'm not alone, that I am normal, that I belong. Through different shared experiences, in the spaces that have been created by different organisations and individuals.
Being queer has brought out the resilience and strength which I never thought existed through being me as an individual. This has helped me to soldier on, in solidarity with other queer people against challenges from stigma, discrimination, different forms of violence, and exclusion from different policies and laws that are meant to protect us.
It also means that I get to contribute to the broader queer advocacy discourse. When it comes to advocating for equality, inclusion, different spaces... Policies and laws is something that I'm also very passionate about and qualified in if I should say.
And ultimately I would say, for me it means I live in my originality and joy, strength and purpose. Being queer is love, and love is a beautiful thing. Love is a beautiful thing. So I still continue to discover myself and you know, evolve as the times come and go. But, generally, that's what it means for me. And that's how it has changed my perspective on life.
Toryn
I really, really love that, “queer is love”. I think that's an amazing expression and it sounds like it brings a lot of solidarity and a lot of joy to you personally. And I think it's something that we should all remember a bit more.
And I guess kind of a follow up question on that, you're maybe one of the lucky queer people in that it not only has brought a lot to you personally, but professionally also it sounds like too it's brought a lot of meaning to the work you do?
Tavonga
Yes, yes, yes. I realise that I became more active within the community, you know, I still live in a city. And I think through my interactions with queer community members I realised how much there was a gap in terms of addressing legal issues or just people having a safe place to stay.
“Who is the lawyer I can approach? Who is the legal mind I can approach? When I have a problem or my rights have been violated, what’s the safe space?” So I think it's something that is still in the work for me, but I've tried to make myself that safe space that anyone can come to with their legal problems and I can help them how I can, or refer them to other safe places that I know.
Toryn
Incredible. I've been doing queer community work for ten years and I think it's challenging at times, but it is some of the most rewarding work you can do. So I'm really glad to hear that you're providing that space for people when they most need it in Zimbabwe.
Music Interlude
Toryn
Talking about Zimbabwe, what is the local context like for queer people there? And what do you wish other people knew about the local community around you?
Tavonga
Thank you for the question. I think I would describe the local context in Zimbabwe as something that is very complex because we come in our diversity and there are a lot of intersectionalities when it comes to the queer community.
But I think actually I have seen many challenges. For example, same sex marriages are criminalised... Well, not really criminalised, but they are unconstitutional if I should say in Zimbabwe. You can't get married to your partner officially in terms of the law. And I think it brings in a lot of complications in terms of issues like custody of children and in terms of dealing with issues of separation.
And it has also encouraged hostility within the broader community if I should say. People now think that it's okay to not be a state or violence but there's an exception to that rule if that violence can be perpetrated against queer individuals. And then we also find other laws in relation to sodomy. Sodomy is criminalised here in Zimbabwe. And even consensual sex between two men is still criminalised.
As I see it, the broader community itself has quite a hostile attitude towards queer individuals. But they also exist, you know. I think I talked about issues of violence, physical violence and harassment. Now it has even graduated, you know, to online violence. And that has brought again more visibility when it comes to queer lives.
On that note I would like to say that the queer community in Zimbabwe is also very resilient. And we have continued to share issues with each other to allow for interaction and connections, as well as to share different experiences. I always believe that there’s power in storytelling. I might not relate to you when you write a journal, but when you tell a story that almost resonates with where I am in that moment, it can bring a lot of change. So that is why different organisations continue to advocate for the realisation of the rights of queer individuals.
However there's also quite some uncertainty considering the regional and international wave of anti-queer and anti-rights laws, if I should say. I think you witnessed the situation in Uganda. The situation also in Kenya, in Ghana as well.
So recently a motion was introduced, they tried to pass a motion. This motion sought to criminalise funding towards LGBTQ organisations here in Zimbabwe. And I think that has brought so much uncertainty. I think for the private, voluntary organisations, the Parliament is also trying again to pass just some uncertainty within the community. But the work continues.
One thing I wish others knew about our local community in Zimbabwe is that despite the challenges we are facing, we continue to try and be resilient, and we are trying to thrive in our activism and to contribute to society just like everyone does.
And we continue to ask for support in terms of solidarity. There’s power in solidarity internationally when it comes to advocacy and to the realisation of the rights of queer individuals, as well as just inclusivity needs broader sense. Yeah, I think that's mostly it.
Toryn
Thank you, it's really great to hear. I think obviously a lot of our audience is going to be European, and that means a lot of our audience is going to be white. And I think a lot of people think of Africa and African nations in a very flat way, where they think it's all terrible.
And it's really great to hear you talk. I especially love that you're talking about resilience and building connections and storytelling. I think that's really essential for every community. And it really is the way we build bridges between different parts of the world. And I think that's really important, given that I don't think in Europe we get as much exposure to African queer communities as we should.
So I guess a kind of follow up question is there a Zimbabwean storyteller, a queer storyteller that you really like, that people should go research? Is there a writer in particular, anyone you could recommend to listeners to follow up with after they've listened to this conversation?
Tavonga
Not really a writer but I think most organisations in Zimbabwe lately have been trying to do a lot of storytelling. I think Feminist Voices Zimbabwe is one such organisation that has been doing a lot of work towards storytelling. So I think we could check some of their podcast material. They've done quite a lot in that regard so I think I would definitely recommend that.
Toryn
That's a great recommendation. Thank you so much, we’re always happy to lift up our fellow NGOs and our fellow community workers and hear their stories too. So definitely everyone listening, go check that out.
Music Interlude
Toryn
What passions drive you? What is it that you think about last thing before bed and first thing in the morning? What makes you tick and makes this work so valuable for you?
Tavonga
I think my greatest passion is my future children. (Laughter) For my future children to grow in a world that's better than the one I existed in when it comes to inclusivity, I think that is my greatest passion.
As well as social justice, just seeing that everyone is treated fairly, that there is no unjustified discrimination or any inequality, that we’re just exposed to the queer community. And just advocacy in general. I like advocating, I really like advocating. And yeah, I think those have been my greatest passions in life.
And family. I come from quite a supportive family and partner. Those have been my passions to see if they won't be threatened by my existence, because sometimes my identity in our African community does not only affect me, it also affects my family. You know, if I'm out, they are also affected. They are also discriminated against in different forms. So those are some of the passions that have been driving me in life.
And what do I think of last before bed? My mind generally goes very blank just before bed. (laughter) I don't know if there's a way of relaxing or not, but, just before it goes blank, I try to think of how my day has gone, picking out the achievements and just giving myself an applause, because sometimes we don't get it enough from other people.
If I don't get it from them, I should definitely get it from myself. So I applaud myself. And I also look at ways that I could improve on where I might have failed, where I might have come short. So yeah, that's the last thing I think of when I’m gonna go to bed.
And the first thing I think of you in the morning is just “How is the weather like? What am I going to wear today?” And, you know, just setting goals for the day. Just setting goals for the day to see what impact I am going to make today.
I was a girl guide in primary school and secondary school. And I think one of the principles we learned was to always do a good deed every day. So what's the good deed I’m going to do? And yeah, that would be generally what I think about when I wake up early in the morning.
Toryn
I think that's again something that I never think of. You were talking about your passion being your children and the future. And I think we hear that reason for advocacy being given in the climate movement and in the economic justice movements. And I think it's something you don't hear from any queer activists that they're doing this for future generations, that they're doing it for their children.
And it's something I never really thought about. So thank you for sharing. I think that's really insightful. I think so often we forget that queer parents and queer people going on to be parents is such an important part of our experiences that we don't examine all that often. So thank you.
Music Interlude
Toryn
Moving on from children to youth, and thinking about our own queer youth that exist now. If you were speaking to a room of queer youth, what wisdom would you want to pass on to them? What do you wish they knew?
Tavonga
I think oftentimes the voice of queer youth is suppressed in most of the communities. And I think one thing I would want the youth to know is that our voices matter. And no matter what can be said about our voices, we should keep on bringing them within this space. And also that we should continue to stay authentic to ourselves.
At times there are different reasons we might give ourselves to stay authentic. For example, say I'm authentic and I’ll be discriminated against. I may not get the dream job that I want, but the right opportunities will always locate us when we are authentic, and we'll be more comfortable with ourselves. I would like to think so.
One thing that we often ignore is let’s prioritise self-care. I know there's a lot of ambition. We are youths and we want to achieve a lot of goals, but let's prioritise self-care. And find time to, you know, slow down and just take care of ourselves.
And, another thing I’ll say is that we are more than our sexual orientation, right. We have different intersectionalities within our peer bodies. We can be doctors, we can be lawyers, we can be artists, we can be anything we want outside of our sexual orientation. And it makes it even more beautiful if I should say, it's not the end of us, it's only the beginning in that we all need a support system. Let's try and find one.
Sometimes our strength can run dry, but let's find a support system that aligns with our values as well to keep us going in those moments when everything seems to be so, so dark.
Another thing is let's stay informed of what's happening around us and, where we can, let's be the change that we want to see happen. Because we are the future of the queer community.
Toryn
That point around self-care is so important, I think especially for youth activists, so many people come into the activist space, they're so excited, it gives them so much energy, and they're like, “I can do this forever. This is what I'm going to do. It's what I want to do.” And I can speak from personal experience that I got six years into doing that and then had to do an awful lot of therapy to deal with all the care that I put on the sidelines.
So I think it's very important around activism and around advocacy work to make sure that you're looking after yourself and that you're building yourself as a sustainable leader and a sustainable voice for your community. So I think it's a really excellent point.
Music Interlude
Toryn
Before you leave us, the final question: Who is Tavonga and how do you want people to see you? When people stop listening today, what do you hope they think about you?
Tavonga
I hope they think that I’m a very peaceful but also powerful person. (Laughter) That, you know, most times people think when someone is peaceful, they’re weak. But sometimes we can be peaceful and we can also be so powerful.
And I’m also a very passionate person in terms of advocacy for queer individuals. And that I continuously and I never want to stop learning, and I will never stop learning. That I am also very enthusiastic, determined and youthful, as I said in the beginning, I'm still tapping into that to use the energy I hope to sustain throughout. Yeah, I think that's much about Tavonga.
Toryn
Well, it's been a privilege speaking with you today. Thank you so much for speaking with our audience and have a wonderful day.
Tavonga
Thank you. Thank you.
