Full Podcast
Hosted by IGLYO Comms & Network Officer Toryn (She/her), our Portraits of Queer Youth podcast series gives a platform to young queer activists from across the globe to share their powerful stories, describe the local LGBTQI landscape in their region, and share their messages of hope to queer youth peers worldwide.
This second episode centres on Lilith (They/She), Fundraiser and International Relations Coordinator at our IGLYO Member Organisation Pink Life LGBTI Solidarity Association, the only trans self-led organisation in Turkey. Lilith is also a master's degree student at the Boğaziçi University Linguistics Department, where their passion is “transing” academia: transforming the academic field with trans perspective.
You can listen to the full podcast below on Spotify or YouTube, or read the full transcript underneath.
With the support of
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This podcast was produced with the support of with the support of the Citizenship, Equality, Rights and Values 2021-2027 Programme of the European Union. The contents of the podcast are the sole responsibility of IGLYO and can in no way be taken to reflect those of the European Commission.
Full transcript
Toryn
Welcome to the IGLYO Portraits of Queer Youth podcast series. Each podcast, we will speak to a different queer person from around the globe about their experiences and their local communities, bridging the gap between European queer activists and their colleagues around the world.
This week, uniquely, we will be speaking to someone from one of our IGLYO network member organisations. Lilith is the fundraising and international relations coordinator of Pink Life, an IGLYO member based in Turkey. Lilith, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome.
Lilith
Hi. Thank you for inviting me, actually. I really appreciate your effort and interest in us.
Toryn
Of course, we're really excited to hear more about your experiences and especially that of Pink Life in Turkey. Before we start our conversation, it's really important we get a sense of who you are. Could you introduce yourself briefly before we get into it?
Lilith
Of course. My name is Lilith, and I prefer They/them as my pronouns, but I am okay with She/her as well. Just avoid He/him. I am the Fundraiser and International Relations Coordinator at Pink Life LGBTI Solidarity Association in Turkey.
And, in addition to my advocacy work in Pink Life, I am also a master's degree student at Boğaziçi University Linguistics Department. And I usually focus on the relationship between language, gender and sexuality in my studies.
Toryn
I'm right in saying that Pink Life is the first organisation dedicated to trans people in Turkey, is that right?
Lilith
Yes, that is correct. And actually, it is still the first and the only trans self-led organisation in Turkey.
Toryn
As a trans woman. I'm delighted to speak to you. This is a real treat for me. So, Lilith, could you tell us what it means for you to exist in the world as a queer person? How has it changed your life and perspective, moving through society as a queer person?
Lilith
Of course, when it comes to society, society is aware of our identity even before we are aware of our own identity. So, my queer identity… First of all, I faced discrimination. And due to this discrimination actually, I started to move towards more safe spaces and ally spaces.
And in the end, I moved towards solidarity among the queer community. And that's why me being a queer person in Turkey, what it changed in my life, is probably I am more resilient than any ordinary person in Turkey.
Toryn
Could you speak more about that resilience. What does that bring to your life?
Lilith
As a trans person — and maybe as a transfem person I should specify over here because, the level of discrimination and stigmatisation is not the same for every identity. For example, trans women or transfem people face more limitations when it comes to reaching or accessing some social services, education, child services, etc.
But you want to live, you want to continue your life. And that's why you are looking for ways to survive within this system. This cis-centred system. That's why it improves trans peoples’ resilience skills, actually.
Toryn
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a really important point. I think often people think of the trans community as this monolith, and we're all the same. But the diversity of experiences based on identities is really significant, and it's always worth keeping in mind when thinking about the trans community and trans people in general. So thank you so much for that.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
Talking more about your local context and what it's like on the ground for trans people in Turkey, could you tell us what is that like? What is the local context for queer people? And what do you wish other people knew about your local community, about trans communities in Turkey and their experiences?
Lilith
Although right now in the local context, we face many discrimination, especially with the conservative government adopting this phobic political stance against LGBTI community and, following this, there has been some backlash in terms of our rights. For example, we organised a Pride march in Istanbul with a crowd of 10,000 people in 2010.
But, after that, the government started to ban the pride events. And then following the ban, we observed a lot of police brutality, which is really unfortunate. And what I want people to know, actually, usually the government uses this narrative: “The LGBTI community is not a part of our national values. And actually it is a strategic attack against the Turkish nation from Western countries. So it is something borrowed.” So this is their claim, actually.
But as a person who is studying “Labunya”, which is queer slang that is spoken by trans sex workers and more recently among LGBTI activists, I observed that actually the queer community, especially the transfem community, had existed even during the Ottoman era.
And I found evidence of “Labunja”, the language of transfem... Well, it is not appropriate to
call them “trans” maybe, because this terminology was not used during that time. They were calling themselves “Lubunya”. But I can say that they are mostly transfeminine doing sex work or dancers. So it was part of our national values and tradition. And it is not something that is adopted from Europe. It is not something new. And the queer community, LGBTI people have existed through all history and we are still here.
Toryn
Thank you for letting us know about that. I think so often, especially attacks against trans people, are that this is some sort of new faddish thing that's happening. And it's always really important to know our history. And as you say, these people wouldn't have described themselves as trans, but I think there's definitely always... Where you have these communities in history, you can very much see a trans experience being lived, even if that's not the word that was used.
So this was during the Ottoman period in Turkish history?
Lilith
Yes. The news item that I found is dated to 1904. So it was during the late Ottoman era.
Toryn
Definitely something then for our listeners to go and research more about themselves after they listen because it is really important we know our own history. So much of the narrative against us is that we're new and we're faddish and we've come from nowhere, but we've been here for centuries and millennia.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
Given all that adversity, given all those attacks that you're under, from the government, what passion drives you to do this work? What passion really drives you in life? What really keeps you doing this essential work you do?
Lilith
My passion is, actually, just existing as a trans person and making sure that our existences as trans people are not deleted or erased from history, and will not be erased from history. So, that's why I'm still continuing my master's degree at Boğaziçi University on linguistics.
And my passion is actually transforming the academic field and academia in general with trans perspective because I think, especially in Turkey, academia is so cis-centered and, as a trans person who is focusing on the trans community, telling our own story through our perspective is really significant.
That's why, my passion is “transing” academia, actually. Because I am not trying to just, quote-unquote, “pass” in academia, I am not trying to adopt your own style, etc. Of course I am conducting my research professionally, but when it comes to presenting it, I am just adding some trans soul through some images, some colours, and making sure that trans visibility is unavoidable.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
Obviously it IGLYO is a queer youth organisation, and we're very interested in building up the next generation of activists. A huge problem, obviously, that I'm sure in a context like Turkey you've experienced, is people coming into activism very, very excited and then burning themselves out very quickly and leaving the activist scene again.
So if you were speaking to a room of queer youth, what wisdom would you pass on to them? What do you wish they knew about activism, and what do you wish they were aware of at the early parts of their career, their journey, however you want to phrase it?
Lilith
We will come to this life only once. Yeah, well, maybe. I don't know. (Laughter) So make sure that you are having fun. That's why I regret the raves that I didn't attend, because I missed my days, my “raving days” or three days without sleep, etc. Right now, I cannot do that. And, these days will pass. So go out all Friday night, have fun.
Toryn
I think that's a really important message. I think so often we can be weighed down by the heaviness of life and the heaviness that comes with the discrimination that we sometimes face and the oppression that the queer communities face, especially trans people and transfems particularly. And I think it's really important. I think I wholeheartedly agree, I hope the next generation knows to have fun while doing it.
“Make the change, make the difference, change the world, but God, have some fun!” Before you know it, you'll be 30, and that's an experience that I didn't think I'd have. So have the fun while you can! (Laughs)
Lilith
Yeah. Well, in Turkey, there's an amazing queer party scene actually. And I am really happy about that. Yeah. I can say that we can compete with Berlin. (Laughter)
Toryn
And I think that's really important. I think when I was a young person, I was kind of dismissive of queer nightlife because there was so much work to be done, and I was a trans woman, and things seemed so tough. I was like “Why do we focus all our energy on these bars and these drag shows? We need to be doing more.”
And I think the older I've gotten, the more I see them as really essential self-care and caring spaces. They're really, really important, that nightlife scene. So I'm glad that you have a vibrant one in Turkey.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
That is us coming to the end of our interview. But before you leave us, I have one last question: Who is Lilith? How do you want people to see you after this interview? How do you hope people remember you? What do you hope that you've gotten across during the course of this interview?
Lilith
This is a hard question. The hardest one probably (Laughter). Because I'm still trying to discover who Lilith is. I think there is not one stable answer because I am changing, evolving, and improving... hopefully! (Laughter) But I can say that, I am a proud transfeminine living in Turkey, and I am a nerd. (Laughter) I really enjoy studying lessons, and reading articles.
Toryn
Well, thank you for that last word, Lilith. It's been a pleasure to speak to you. And thank you to all our listeners. This has been Portraits of Queer Youth from IGLYO. Till next time. Bye!
