Full Podcast
Hosted by IGLYO Comms & Network Officer Toryn (She/her), our Portraits of Queer Youth podcast series gives a platform to young queer activists from across the globe to share their powerful stories, describe the local LGBTQI landscape in their region, and share their messages of hope to queer youth peers worldwide.
This first episode centres on Kai Mata (She/her), a famous young Indonesian queer artivist who bridges the gap between music and activism and uses art as a vessel for LGBTIQ+ liberation. Kai is the current Joint Annual Engaged Artivist award recipient from the Auschwitz Institute, Binghamton University and Global Campus of Human Rights. She proudly gained a reputation for "turning trials into triumphs, venom into vitality and death threats into love notes".
You can listen to the full podcast below on Spotify or YouTube, or read the full transcript underneath.
With the support of
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This podcast was produced with the support of with the support of the Citizenship, Equality, Rights and Values 2021-2027 Programme of the European Union. The contents of the podcast are the sole responsibility of IGLYO and can in no way be taken to reflect those of the European Commission.
Full transcript
Toryn
Welcome to the Portraits of Queer Youth podcast series. Each podcast will speak to a different queer person from around the globe about their experiences and their local communities, bridging the gap between European queer activists and their colleagues globally. This week we'll speak to Kai Mata, an Indonesian queer artivist who bridges the gap between music and activism. Current Joint Annual Engaged Artivist award recipient from the Auschwitz Institute, Binghamton University and Global Campus of Human Rights. Kai, hello, welcome!
Kai
Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Toryn
Thank you so much for coming along. We're really excited to speak to you. Before we get into the more formal questions. Could you introduce yourself quickly and let the audience know who you are and what your activism and your activism is all about?
Kai
Of course. Well, my name is Kai Mata. I am an Indonesian musician that uses art as a vessel for, particularly, LGBTQ+ liberation. It is the idea that through music, we can reclaim our identities and in an Indonesian context, reclaim our histories. The beautiful pre-colonial traditions that existed that included a wide spectrum of gender and sexual identity that we've lost through time more recently.
And for me, it's all about how we can make sure the world knows we are all worthy of living, worthy of loving, and worthy of being loved.
Toryn
Your work sounds so incredibly interesting. I think it's always important, in this kind of movement we're trying to create, in this kind of activism we're trying to do, that we have as many diverse approaches as possible. And yours sounds truly exciting and like something we need. Moving into, I guess, the more formal questions. Could you tell us a bit about what it means for you to exist as a queer person in the world? How has it changed your life and perspective moving through daily life as a queer person?
Kai
For me to exist as a queer person, especially in a world that can feel so determined to silence or ignore us, means to turn the act of being into a statement of defiance. It has transformed my life. Honestly, being queer, it's challenged me to reject the shame imposed by others and to celebrate who I am unapologetically. Living openly as a queer person has been a journey that weaves through both struggle and celebration.
It's a path where joy is a form of resistance, and pride is a form of protest. Moving through life as a queer person in Indonesia and in the world now has taught me that my existence itself can ignite change, that my happiness and love are forces strong enough to challenge prejudice. And it's this defiant joy that drives me to create arts and use music as a tool for reclaiming our voices and reshaping the future for the generations to follow.
Toryn
Thank you so much. And I guess a kind of off-the-cuff question. What was it about music that made you go down that avenue? What was it about music that made you think “This is how I want to create change in the world”?
Kai
When I was 15 and coming to terms with my sexual orientation, fear flooded me. The only media I saw in Jakarta, Indonesia, equated queerness to suffering. It was articles about people being discovered and facing criminal charges because they're in the military, or people gossiping as if it's salacious news, whether or not someone could be gay. And I remember vowing to myself that I would hide this part of me from the world for the rest of my life.
So with no one to turn to, I really turned to songwriting. It was my own space to explore what it was I knew I was feeling, and for me to figure out how to put words to these emotions that were so overwhelming and so large, but had no vocabulary that I had learned yet. Music was my way to explore my emotional landscape.
And when I look back at my old song journals from when I was a teenager, it's so interesting now to see that shift from absolute fear and despair into tolerance. And then blooming into acceptance. Music saved me and allowed me to reflect on who I was and be okay with who I am. Thus, I want to use that with other people to make it a message that can reach millions of people, but not only reach them, but have them seek this message out.
I think music as a tool and a lot of art can become so pervasive in culture that it is a subtle way of change making that doesn't seem forced into someone's face or a strongly held conviction. But more so a cultural change that I can help be a part of.
Toryn
Thank you so much for sharing that perspective. It's easy to forget there are so many avenues to us as activists and people who want to create change. It can be done in so many different ways and, that change, it’s important that it comes from those different avenues.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
You talked about being a 15-year-old in Jakarta, in Indonesia. What is it like, that local context for queer people in Indonesia now? And what do you wish others knew about local queer communities in Indonesia? I know you're based in Europe at the minute, but if you could give us a bit of an insight into that community, that would be great.
Kai
Of course. My home is always Indonesia, and there the queer experience is full of nuance, as we're often met with societal and legal challenges that can make simply existing quite the delicate dance. We live between visibility and survival. Navigating the expectations of family and society and our culture. So few come out due to a ubiquitous stigmatisation and the really harsh social ramifications of losing everything from loved ones to your job to your standing in society.
Yet, in the face of these trials, we continue to build really vibrant and resilient rainbow communities. I want others, especially those from outside of Indonesia, to see the strength, the warmth and the unity that pulses through Indonesia's queer scene. We may be forced to operate in the shadows for safety, but those shadows are so colourful. They are full of life, full of laughter, full of food and affirmation, and a persistent belief that hopefully one day we could be public and it not be anything but normal.
Toryn
That gives a real insight into a community I think we don't hear so often about, even though I know Indonesia is a huge country. So thank you. And if people are hoping to do a bit more of their own research about the queer community in Indonesia, is there any kind of resources you can recommend? Is there any books, documentaries? Your music perhaps, is that an avenue of exploration further?
Kai
Yeah, most definitely. A Dutch professor, Saskia Wieringa, just released a book on the lesbian, bisexual and trans movements in Indonesia, and it gives such a beautiful historical insights into different facets of Indonesian culture, from times when the Dutch and Portuguese were in Indonesia centuries ago, to what's going on currently. In a way that is so insightful and just really well-rounded, to show that there is always a nuance, there's always a history, and there's always a path forward.
Toryn
Thank you so much. Definitely, I recommend listeners: If you're interested to find out more, check that book out!
[Music interlude]
Toryn
We've heard a bit about where you came from and about you as a person, but what about your passions? What drives you in life? What is the thing you think about last thing before bed and the first thing you think about in the morning when you wake up?
Kai
My passion is really just to make sure that people understand that they are worthy of having a life. And for me, that's been using music, and it's been the heart of my journey, transforming from just a tool of expression to a powerful movement to inspire change. And for me, build bridges. I am driven to be the bridge between everyday societal life and pop culture, as well as academia and legislation, because it can feel very isolating by normal, everyday people.
When bombarded with what's happening legislatively. To be able to be that bridge is to create more connections and understanding and give people more tools to understand what's going on in the world in ways that affect them, as well in ways that affect their loved ones. I also aim to be the bridge between the local Indonesian context and the global discourse on LGBTIQ identities and different human rights issues.
Oftentimes I know in international discourse, whether at the UN or other legislative bodies, they view Indonesia as a lost cause for human rights. And it is a difficult, difficult country to navigate when it comes to forms of discrimination and how we can approach that with ethics at the forefront. But there is a way, there is a hope, and there is a possibility that we cannot view Indonesia as simply, too far gone to be saved, that there are people in Indonesia doing the work and abroad to make sure that as a the fourth largest population in the world, we are given a space to be trusted to do better in society and to treat humanity with respect.
So for me, every night before bed and every morning I wake up. I honestly just think about my loved ones, my family, my chosen family, my friends, and I think about the isolated queer youth that I once was and the ones I know exist now. I think about what they need, how I can serve them, and the stories they have that are so impactful to be able to bring their stories to the public at large is to create a pathway for more empathy, more compassion, and to turn potential struggles into a purpose of an unwavering commitment to make sure our voices do not get lost to time and not get drowned out by the courts of public opinion. These are the things that remind me that what I'm doing has its purpose, has its power and has its place in creating long lasting change.
Toryn
Incredible. And I think something very interesting you kind of touched on, I think it's always deeply frustrating and unhelpful when the global movement has kind of decided that certain parts of the world are beyond help or beyond support, as you've said, and that it all feels a bit hopeless. And oftentimes that's people in more privileged positions and more comfortable countries not wanting to engage with the challenges that our fellow queer people are feeling. And sometimes they just choose to disengage completely and give up.
Does that add a certain urgency to your work as an activist and as a musician, to kind of try and grab those people's attention in a way that's maybe a bit more easy for them to engage with initially and get them more interested in the cause in Indonesia.
Kai
Of course, and so many valid discussions centre around the suffering, the issues, and those are so important to have. But sometimes it's so nice and relieving to talk about the joys that are going on, the successes, the ways we are thriving, and maybe that will inspire your ideas for actual solutions that we can implement. Perhaps it will create a wider perspective on what the possibilities look like in our imagined futures.
And that's where I feel I play an important role. I'm not here to change legislation directly. I'm not here to do years-long research of historical preservation. But the work people do in legislation and academia, I want to make sure it gets seen by the public, understood by them, and that they can stand by our united and very shared missions of creating a more hospitable place for us as marginalised individuals.
Toryn
Yeah, exactly. And I think that that nuance is so important and so often lost. I think oftentimes when people hear that a country is maybe a bit more difficult for the LGBT community, they kind of go straight to doom and destruction, and we lose the nuance of “Yes, some communities struggle more, but they still have joy. There's still a community, there's still a vibrancy there.” So I'm really glad that your work is showing that and reminding people of that.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
Obviously at IGLYO, we're a queer youth organisation and we're really invested in and providing resources and capacity building for queer youth and then kind of educating them in a way to make them sustainable and empathetic and compassionate activists. If you were speaking to a room of queer youth right now, what wisdom would you want to pass on to them? What do you wish they knew?
Kai
If I could tell queer youth one thing, it would just be this: You are more powerful than you know. You have more influence in the world than you can recognise right now. The world may tell you to try to hide, to change, or to be something other than who you are. But you have a right to live in love.
It can be openly. It can be privately. You still have that right, and the influence you have in creating change around you is limitless. The conversations you have every day with people you meet on the streets, with your family, with your friends, at school, with yourself, that is a part of creating a more empathetic and kinder world, because the ways you interact will show people that queer individuals are well-rounded human beings.
They are complex. They have a variety of emotions and a variety of facets, where queerness is just one aspect of who they are, and to be able to showcase that with the other parts of who you are is to humanise the queer experience. Because it's a part of us. It's not all of us. It is not the only thing that defines us.
And you get to be the person to define your narrative and then shape the narrative of the people around you. When it comes to queer identity, that is an incredible power you have, and I want you to recognise that. And if you don't yet, if you still feel too afraid or too alone, that's okay. I've been there. Occasionally, to this day, I still am there. But know that there's a world of people like me who stand with you and who accept you unabashedly.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
Before you leave us one last question. Who is Kai Mata? How do you want people to see you? If someone's reflecting on this conversation in an hour from now, a day from now, or a week from now, how do you hope that they think about you?
Kai
In my six years as an outspoken Indonesian musician, I have proudly gained a reputation for turning trials into triumphs, venom into vitality and death threats into love notes. I want people to see me as an artist who not only speaks to resilience, but lives it. And I want people to see that I am inviting others to feel the defiant heartbeat that underscores every song, every lyric, every performance, every speech.
For me. I want people to see me as not a leader of a community, but a part of a community. I want us to all rise together. So that way none of us have to feel alone ever again, that we get to celebrate together. And in that communal sense of euphoria and joy, that the reason we exist can never be taken away from us, that we get to be here and we are allowed to shine as who we are.
Toryn
Kai, thank you so much for joining us.
Kai
Thank you so much for having me, Toryn. It's an absolute pleasure. And honestly, I think these types of conversations are so important and I'm glad I'm having them with you.
Toryn
Well, thank you for your generosity in this conversation.
