Full Podcast
Hosted by IGLYO Comms & Network Officer Toryn (She/her), our Portraits of Queer Youth podcast series gives a platform to young queer activists from across the globe to share their powerful stories, describe the local LGBTQI landscape in their region, and share their messages of hope to queer youth peers worldwide.
This third podcast centres on Artemis, co-founder of our IGLYO Member Organisation the Afghanistan LGBTQI+ Organization (ALO) based in Czechia. Artemis shares their unique experience of supporting queer Afghan refugees in a European context based on their own lived experience as a refugee, and explains the importance of amplifying the voices of refugees and migrants by hearing and sharing their stories.
You can listen to the full podcast below on Spotify or YouTube, or read the full transcript underneath.
With the support of
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This podcast was produced with the support of with the support of the Citizenship, Equality, Rights and Values 2021-2027 Programme of the European Union. The contents of the podcast are the sole responsibility of IGLYO and can in no way be taken to reflect those of the European Commission.
Full transcript
Toryn
Welcome to the IGLYO Portraits of Queer Youth podcast series. Each podcast will speak to a different queer person from around the globe about their experiences and their local communities, bridging the gap between European queer activists and their colleagues globally.
This week we're speaking to Artemis from the Afghanistan LGBTQI+ Organization (ALO), based in the Czech Republic, and we'll be hearing about their unique experience of supporting Afghan refugees in a European context. Artemis thank you so much for joining us.
Artemis
Hello, Toryn, and thank you so much for your invitation. It's an honour for me to be here and speaking with you and your audience.
Toryn
Of course. We're really excited to hear from you. Before we jump in, could you tell us a bit about yourself and your organisation ALO. What is that you do?
Artemis
I'm a refugee in the Czech Republic. I came to Europe in 2021, and I decided to co-found this organisation with other colleagues. So we co-founded ALO or the Afghanistan LGBTQI+ Organization in 2021. We have three main pillars in the organisation.
The first one is Education. We have podcasts, programmes, videos, articles to educate people about diverse sexual orientation and gender identity.
The second pillar of our work in the ALO is Advocacy. We document human rights violations committed by the Taliban in Afghanistan. And we work and engage with the UN, with the International Criminal Court and other international platforms for advocacy and increasing the inclusion of LGBTQ people in international peace and security.
Our third pillar is Humanitarian Aid. We provide cash assistance and other basic necessities to the LGBTIQ people who have been affected by the conflict or the crisis.
Toryn
That's incredible. We're really, really glad to be interviewing you, not only to be interviewing you, but also to have ALO as a voice within Europe, I think is really important. And I think I can speak for the whole team when I say, we're really excited to have you as a Member of our network and a Member of the wider IGLYO family. You bring something very unique and very necessary to our work.
So saying that, could you tell us a bit about what it means for you to exist as a queer person in the world? How has that changed your life and your perspective, moving through the world as a queer person?
Artemis
Being queer, to me, I think, it's an identity that I was born with. But on the other hand, to me and to some other queer Afghans, it’s a way of life that we should live as a queer person because in the context of Afghanistan, being queer is taboo.
There are many stigmas against LGBTIQ people, against queer people. So you should have your own unique lifestyle in order to protect yourself, in order to survive in society, in the country. And when I noticed that I'm a queer person, it changed my perspective dramatically through life and the world. I noticed that there is a division, in society, there are many discriminations, unfortunately, the violence against queer people, it changed my perspective.
Because I had a very, very regular life, I thought that everything was okay in the world. But when I noticed about my different gender identity and sexual orientation compared to other people in the society, I noticed that there are barriers that I should go through. So I think my activism started from that time to make a better world for myself and also for other queer people.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
What I'm really interested to hear about from you — you bring such a unique voice in this area — is your local context, specifically. Talking both about your experiences in Afghanistan and also as a refugee in Europe, what is that like? And what do you wish other people knew about your local community? What do you wish people knew about Afghan queer people, but also queer refugees in Europe?
Artemis
Well, as you know, even in Europe, we have a lot of discrimination against queer people. There are many barriers for them, even here in the Czech Republic or in other European countries. But, to me, as an Afghan queer refugee, I think the discriminations are higher than other queer people.
For example, you can face discrimination not only because of your queer identity, but also because of my race, my status as a refugee, and because of my skin colour. So sometimes I have this feeling that I don't belong to this community, to this country, to Europe. But on the other hand, I have this feeling that I should fight again for my rights here, you know, even here in Europe.
And, regarding the second part of your question, I wish that other people in Europe, and specifically in the Czech Republic, knew more about LGBTIQ people and also refugees and migrants, because in the Czech Republic, we have a long way for equality, for equality for all, including LGBTIQ people.
On the other hand, they are less educated, about diverse sexual orientation and gender identity. They are not very informed about refugees and migrants. I heard this many times that, for example, “refugees are a burden to society”. But I do believe that refugees and migrants can flourish society, that they can increase diversity and enrich the society. And I think that there are many things that need to be learned by the society and by the local community here in the Czech Republic.
So, again, I think that my advocacy work must be increased because I should work harder to make the situation better here not only for myself, but also for other queer refugees and migrants in the Czech Republic.
Toryn
Absolutely. And I think something that we all should be thinking of as queer people is that we should be one of the most natural allies to refugee and migrant communities in Europe. The same people who hate trans people, who hate LGBTQI people, they are the same people who hate refugees. If we can't even muster the basic humanity to just see people in need and help them, at the very least, we should see that our common enemy hates both of us and that there's obviously a shared humanity there. So I think it's really important, this conversation.
And I think it's really important that the LGBTQI communities across Europe really start to reflect on this and become more open to migration and more open to refugees and recognise the shared humanity there. Because it's essential, I completely agree with you. I think the more diverse kinds of nationalities and cultures you have in a country, the better for the country. I think it's always a net positive.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
You've talked about the kind of additional challenges of both being a refugee, a person of colour, and a queer person, and how those things kind of stack on top of each other and create additional difficulties and additional pressures.
Given all those pressures, what passions drive you in life? What is it that keeps you doing the work you're doing, keeps you doing the advocacy work you're doing? What is the last thing you think about before bed, and what's the first thing you think of in the morning? What's really at the core of your passion?
Artemis
Thank you so much for this question. But before answering this question, I want to give you a little bit of context. I lived and worked in many countries, I traveled to many countries, and I was a refugee also in Iran, I was a refugee in Turkey, and I traveled in the Middle-East, and also other parts of the world.
If you travel outside of Europe, you can see that there are many LGBTIQ people in a very, very, very difficult situation. For example, especially those LGBTIQ people in challenging areas, or LGBTIQ people under totalitarian regimes, or LGBTIQ people in conflict zones. They experience violence, discrimination, torture, every single day of their life and they are fighting and struggling every single day.
And also, I used to work in a radio station for Afghanistan and Iranian LGBTIQ people called radio Ranginkaman. And I interviewed more than 200 LGBTIQ people from Afghanistan and Iran. And I heard many narratives and stories of those LGBTIQ people who have been persecuted just because of who they are and who they love.
And one of the main reasons that I’m doing this advocacy work, I think, is because I want to make a better situation for the next generation of LGBTIQ people. I want a better and equal voice for them because I don't want the next generation of LGBTIQ people to face discrimination, torture, and even unfortunately execution, in the future.
So this is the main reason, and my main hope, for my advocacy work. And is the biggest thing that I want from this life and from my advocacy work and from our organisational work.
Toryn
Yeah. And I guess seeing people in such desperate need really, really must light a kind of fire in you.
Given you have such a wide perspective of queer experiences I really have a question around empathy. I think it's hard for a lot of European queers. I think a lot of queer people in Europe see the discrimination and the barriers they face, and they very much focus on their own issues, because that's what we do as humans. We focus on the things that are affecting us directly.
What do you think is the best way for people who don't understand those challenges to be more empathetic? Is there any kind of media you recommend? Are there any great speakers? For someone who's interested in learning more about the experiences of queer people, specifically in the Middle East, where would you direct them to start?
Artemis
Well, I think the first thing is that we have many queer migrants and refugees here in Europe. And I think it's very important to learn from them by amplifying their voices. We can invite them and we can learn from them. We can hear their stories, hear their narratives, and then we can amplify their voices, their narrative, so we can raise awareness about the situation of queer people in the Middle East, the situation of LGBTQ people in conflict zones.
When I talk about conflicts, I don't mean just the conflict in the Middle East, but also everywhere in Ukraine and in Latin America, in Africa, everywhere. So I think it's very important that we raise awareness. There are many international platforms, even here in IGLYO. I think this podcast is a great opportunity, for me and also for many other queer people, to raise awareness, to just share these narratives, stories. And I think if other people listen to these narratives, stories, podcasts and media, they can learn a lot about LGBTQ people and also the context in the Middle East and other countries.
The other thing that we can do is that, in our advocacy work, we should adopt an intersectional perspective. And I really encourage all queer people in Europe to adopt this perspective. For example, if they want to talk about the rights of LGBTQ people in Europe, also they should talk about the rights of LGBTQ refugees and migrants in Europe.
Or if you want to do some policy changes or policy making in the European Union, we should do it in a way that also LGBTIQ migrants, LGBTIQ refugees, LGBTIQ people of colour benefit from. And there are many ways. But two main things is education through media, through listening to the LGBTIQ migrants and refugees. And the second thing to adopt this intersectional perspective in our daily work.
Toryn
Definitely, you can't beat the first-hand account of somebody in a room or on a Zoom call where you're actively speaking with them.
I will say one thing as your friendly neighbourhood Communications & Network Officer: Absolutely anyone listening, if you're part of an LGBTQI org, I do recommend having a queer refugee come in and speak and maybe do a presentation to the group, however you want to do that, whatever format, but pay them for their work. Please pay them for their work. It is a traumatic thing to come all the way to Europe, especially if you're leaving a conflict zone. And it can be retraumatising sometimes to share that story.
So I think, Artemis, you're absolutely right, getting people in the room together and chatting is the best way to create understanding and create empathy. But pay those people for their work. That's the right thing to do, and they deserve it.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
Coming back to the youth element of things. So obviously at IGLYO we are a youth organisation. We're very interested in youth, preparing the next generation of young activists for the life of an activist, for what it is like out there in the real world.
Artemis, if you were speaking to a room of queer youth and particularly, I think, queer youth who come from a refugee or migrant background, what wisdom would you pass on to them? And what do you wish they knew about this world we call activism?
Artemis
Well, thank you for this question again, because I want to pass two things that really helped me in my life.
The first thing is not losing hope. Having hope is very important, because with hope, you can do many great things in your life. We can make many changes, and we can continue and fight for a better future.
And the second thing is networking. Many people think that money is power, or more information is power. But to me, networking is power. Networking with the right people, the right organisations, networks, etc. can create big changes.
I really encourage queer young people in Europe and also queer young refugees in Europe to use these two things to make some changes in their advocacy work.
Toryn
I think that is really, really important and something we don't think about often enough: The power of networks and the power of relationships and what change that can bring.
[Music interlude]
Toryn
This has been a fascinating conversation. Artemis. Thank you so much for your insights and your perspectives. Before you leave us, one last question. Who is Artemis? How do you want people to see you? And when they stop listening today, what is the image you want inside their heads of you?
Artemis
Well, thank you so much for this very interesting conversation. Artemis is a survivor. A survivor and also a person who has been displaced just because of his queer identity. But also, Artemis is a fighter. I have this belief that Artemis is a person who is fighting for a better future for himself, and also for other queer people.
My work sometimes in the organisation combines and intertwines with sorrow and pain. Sometimes because we listen to many difficult situations and we deal with crises and negative news. And sometimes people feel that Artemis is a person that is always dealing with negative news, etc. But I want to see myself as a person who is fighting and working for a better future and a positive impact on that from society.
Toryn
Thank you so much for joining us, Artemis, and thank you to the listeners for again joining Portraits of Queer Youth. We'll see you next time!
Artemis
Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a nice day.
